@nielspflaeging I was about to answer that your equation is a little to simple and that you are forgetting #valueCreation and #flowOptimisation. But actually I think that you get both by #selforganization.

@nielspflaeging I wouldn't say #betacodex is crap, because I might not like the behavior of some individuals in the community. Creating the contradiction that I myself feel connected to the group.

Communication, gathering, self-organization, transparency, #innovation, #valuecreation and so on are all parts of a complex system. In my opinion, cause and effect can't be defined.

@arnd
Can we keep things apart from each other? A conversation is not a smoothie!

1) Nobody said all #LiberatingStructures were shit. Most if not all were just stolen somewhere and grouped under the "LS" label

2) My post above is an observation about a certain community, not individuals/things

3) #OpenSpace is a gathering format. It is consistent with #BetaCodex. It plays a role in #OpenSpaceBeta, not necessarily in #BetaCodex, certainly not in #valuecreation, directly.

Is it clearer now?

@nielspflaeging Oops, I thought OpenSpace was a key component for #valuecreation in #betacodex

@nielspflaeging

OK so I merged your post into this:

"I find that it's always people with no clue of actual #valuecreation that find LiberatingStructures amazing, exciting and, well, "liberating"."

Is it about ppl being so excited about LS that they lose focus on why they chose LS at first place? Is it about not seeing LS as a means to an end?

@nielspflaeging my first point was that #liberatingstructures does not imply #valuecreation (this is where we agree), but it does not deny it either. For me the first is a tool, the second is a goal. Focusing on a tools instead of a goal does not create value, but the same is true for alienating people that like certain tools.

@nielspflaeging what you say sounds to me like oversimplification, but also fits with my experience. There were a few super nice people with deep believe in #liberatingstructures , but they seemed to have lost the focus on #valuecreation . I still feel like an engineer and this is a little too much « l’art pour l’art »

@scottsantens
The idea of a "4-day work week" is based on flawed thinking about both #people's needs and #valuecreation! Such rules are not a solution to any problem: They are merely activism based on clichés.
"Experiences" of all kinds notwithstanding.

Ask yourself: What is the kind of problem we are REALLY trying to solve?
#betacodex

@paulio
The answer to your question is simple: Every company wants to adapt #BetaCodex philosophy because they are ALL facing what you call "pressure from consumer demand". We call it market-pull.
How can I be sure? Well, all markets became complex around the 1970s and 1980s.

And may I disagree with the "core belief" you are stating? NO business is about #money. All businesses are about #valuecreation and they NEED the $$$ to survive. Just the way that human existence is not about oxygen! ;-)

@leonid
I might add:
In our #transformation work with client organizations, they turn their structures outside-in, eliminate their #incentive systems and their stance on #careers. All that and more within just 90 days, with #OpenSpaceBeta:
https://www.redforty2.com/openspace-beta

To change structure
and to #decentralize, they adopt the #CellStructureDesign approach: https://www.redforty2.com/cellstructuredesign/
It pretty much changes everything we think and believe about structure. While strengthening #ValueCreation immediately.